End-to-end email marketing automation with Pipedrive to land and help clients transform data into powerful insights for business improvement.
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Amanda: Hey guys!
Nathan: Hey, Amanda.
Amanda: Nathan, I have a special guest this week. Susan, would you like to introduce yourself?
Susan: Sure. Hi, I’m Susan. I am an executive assistant here at NSquared and Blink.
Amanda: An executive assistant who does an incredible amount of technical work.
Nathan: Yeah, I was about to say like, master of operations. I don’t know.
Susan: Okay, so I’m the executive assistant, but yes, I wear many hats.
Amanda: Yeah, I’d give you, head of ops, I think.
Nathan: I’m certainly not doing it.
Amanda: Well, Susan, thank you for joining us. I’m excited. So Nathan, Susan, and I talk every week, the three of us, there’s always a lot to figure out. Susan, you do a lot of stuff at Blink. It’s not just operations either, but you’re writing content, I mean, you’re involved in the onboarding process. How are you liking it?
Susan: I love it. I think part of having been supporting different clients as an executive assistant is a lot of times I do end up dealing with metrics, filling out scorecards. So for me, I kind of have that personal vested interest in Blink where it makes my job easier. So, yeah, I love it. I always like operations, onboarding type of thing too, so it’s a great fit for me.
Amanda: The product has been around for quite a while Nathan right? Almost three years but we only recently started organizing the sales process and the marketing process. And we chose Pipedrive as our CRM, which I don’t know if we have an answer of how or why we chose Pipedrive. But Nathan, do you have thoughts on that?
Nathan: Yeah, we looked at several, we did not do an exhaustive search cause you can’t afford to spend a hundred hours making a perfect decision. And we haven’t done, we haven’t really figured out what our sales process is, so we don’t know what the best tool that fits that process is either, so I think we evaluated and ended up choosing Pipedrive.
Amanda: Or have sort of similar structures. You had been hearing the name Pipedrive a lot, so I think that was, that kind of hit top of your list anyway.
Nathan: Yeah. I think a lot of our customers and potential customers use Pipedrive and it’s CRMs. There’s the big ones, Salesforce HubSpot, like the ones that you might think of first, and those have been around long enough that they’ve gotten quite expensive. And then there’s the brand new CRMs that, you know, are very affordable, but maybe don’t have some of the depth of features and functionality, and so you end up running into a ceiling. There’s lots of, something that launched on product hunt yesterday as a CRM is probably going to be fairly limited.
Pipedrive is somewhere there in the middle, which is like their interfaces aren’t as old and clunky and their pricing is not insanely expensive, but they have been around for a while and have a lot of the nice things that you are going to end up wanting, have them covered. And it seems like a lot of their customers are kind of SAS online businesses. There’s some CRMs that are super dialed in and focused on like cold calling and like call dialers and stuff like that, which we do none of. So, we don’t really need any of those features and Pipedrive customers tend to look a little bit more like us rather than like a bunch of cold callers.
Amanda: Yeah, so we don’t do a lot of calling, we don’t need any of those CRMs that have calling features, but we did have emailing as part of our plan. And in particular, Susan, I know you went through a whole course about drip emails and are you certified? Do you have a certification coming out of that course?
Susan: Nothing official, but it was a really great training program. It was kind of a, every day you actually handwrite a copy from very successful drip email sequences to learn it. And then you practice on your own. So it’s got a 3 month program.
Amanda: And that was a big piece of what we wanted to set up in Pipedrive in the CRM was having this really well oiled machine. That is sending out emails to people who hit our website and sign up for our newsletter. If people sign up for a demo with us, we wanted to make sure they had what they needed ahead of the demo. And there’s an automated email there. Do you mind digging in a little bit just to some of the emails that you wrote copy for, some of the emails that we currently send out to both customers and prospects?
Susan: Sure, so, like I said, we have the demo prep email when someone books the demo call, we want to give them a little bit of an intro and kind of what to expect what they might think about before the demo. So they show up really well prepared, and we didn’t want to have to manually be sending those out. And we also have a sequence for people who are kind of interested. They’re not quite ready to get on a demo, but they do want to learn more about Blink. So we wrote the six email series for that, just giving them some little bits of introduction to the product, some extra insights from each of the two of you.
Nathan: I think, most traditionally, drip email sequences are often coming out of the marketing tool. So MailChimp, for example, you would go to your marketing tool that you send out your email campaigns and you send out your drip sequence from there. But we specifically wanted to put it in the CRM because we wanted it to be more conversational and we wanted to keep track of like, at that stage, we want somebody who booked a demo. We send them content about the demo and we want them to be able to engage with us at any point. So, if they hit reply on that email, we want it going into the CRM and if we had some other sequence in line, we want to be able to halt it. If they book a demo, we don’t want to bother them with another email to book a demo. If we’ve asked them a question and there’s a sequence, we want their reply to then stop the sequence, which typically isn’t really found in a marketing tool.
Marketing is just like a blast out. Like you could set a sequence and say, when somebody signs up, on board them and welcome them to the platform and send them emails one through five but if they hit reply, that just goes to an inbox and somebody responds to it, but doesn’t change the sequence.
Whereas we may want to do that in a sales context, or we may want to register. Oh, they replied maybe they’re more interested or something, and move them to a different column in our sales process. So I think we were looking specifically for that as we were evaluating different tools. We knew that we wanted to do the JIP sequence for somebody who’s kind of new to the product and signing up for a demo. We want to do that in the CRM rather than the marketing platform, which isn’t true of all companies. And if it’s really focused on cold calling, cold calling and prospecting and getting leads, that’s a totally different set of features. And like, maybe they don’t even have email or it’s a very simple system that doesn’t have any conditions or logic in it.
Amanda: Yeah, you just reminded me, why we got into all this technical stuff with the emails because have you guys ever experienced that where you’ve signed up for something? And then you’ve made the purchase or you’ve hit, you know, you’ve tried to opt out or you sent an email, but then you just continue to get these marketing emails that you’re like, this is no longer relevant to me. That’s happened to me so many times.
Susan: That’s exactly it Amanda, we wanted to keep the conversation relevant for where people were at.
Amanda: That’s a great point because I was like, that is the whole purpose of why we did it. And so I don’t want to go into like a technical conversation of exactly how we did it. Because Susan, you wrote an entire “How To” article for our website, you recorded a what kind videos was that? A “How To” video?
Susan: I kind of walked through and I screen shared our exact process. So if someone wanted to see a little more, technically exactly what we did, they could check out the blog or that video.
Amanda: Yeah. Okay, perfect. So I don’t want to go into all of the how to, and the point by point instructions, but I did want to ask Susan and Nathan, but I’ll start with Susan. Some of the thought process that you went through as you were trying to build out these stages or these goals. Kind of breaks in the chain when it comes to this series of emails. How did you logically think through that whole process?
Susan: I started very high level. We have two different flows. We have people who sign up for the demo who need to get a demo email. That was pretty straightforward. It’s one email. It’s very clear who gets it, but the six email sequence is a little more nuanced. And I just broke it all down. I said, okay, everyone, these are the people who we want to start getting it. And then I had multiple different stages where someone might exit. So if they book a demo, we don’t want to keep sending them the rest of the emails that might be explaining the product more, but they’ve already heard about it on the demo or the emails might be saying, “Please book a demo while they’ve already done a demo”, we don’t want that.
I just broke it down to all the different types of customers. I had a Google doc and I just labeled, okay, this type of customer, this exits in here. If this happens, I broke down all the logic and then said, okay, now that I have the diagram of all the logic, how do we put that into Pipedrive and automate it? We thought it was going to be easy. We really thought that was going to be very straightforward and very simple. Turned out not to be, but we did make it.
Amanda: Yeah. Nathan, any thoughts to add just about the strategy or the thinking that went into these, these drip emails.
Nathan: I mean, I think we want to be very hands on with our clients and customers who are signing up for Blink but obviously we have to do things that are scalable. Like we are spending time on demos, but you know, we’ve done a lot of these demos and a lot of the same things come up while we ask a lot of the same questions. And so with the drip sequence, it’s basically helping us have a more effective conversation when we do have the call. Cause we can cover some of the basic things that we cover commonly, we could just ask open ended questions just to get them thinking about that before we get on the call. So that maybe they’ve come a little bit more prepared, or that just been in the back of their mind for a little while. So I think that delivers a better conversation. We want to do it in a helpful way and we want to be able to opt people out if they want to opt out themselves.
If we have somebody, which I’m reminded of, we have somebody today that we’ve already talked to, and then we’re setting up a follow up call because they’re super interested and have follow up questions, but they booked it through the website and I think they did not book it through the website the first time. So now they’re going to get the intro sequence, which doesn’t make sense. And you don’t want this tone deaf, weird, robots gone crazy set up. We’re going to be like, I look forward to meeting you and all of these things that don’t apply. So I wanted to make sure we had a way to put in like a manual stop. Somebody just signed up today. We need to be able to go in and tag him and say, “Hey, we’ve already talked to him. Like he’s already in the system. Don’t send the sequence.” So, we wanted to have that control. Really trying to personalize and have a quality connection with our clients and be reasonable and scale up our efforts, but still do it in a way that we can remain personal and not everybody just getting thrown into some massive system that treats them that way.
Amanda: Yeah. I think that goes along with kind of the ethos of NSquared in general, which is being very available, being very communicative, but not being one of those big, you know, enterprisey conglomerate companies that just treats everybody like, what’s the word? Just treats everyone like they’re interchangeable.
Like, they’re not kind of an individual person. And I think how we deal with customers, but then also in this whole process, it has been very much. How do we communicate what we want to communicate? To communicate to people, but also not completely depersonalize it and it’s kind of interesting that in order to achieve that we put a ton of automation into the process.
Nathan: Yeah, and it’s a hard line to walk. Cause I want to spend 20 hours with every single person who’s interested in Blink, but I just can’t do it. And so we have to leverage automation to do that. And I don’t think it’s disingenuous because, yes, you’re sending, there’s an email that goes out and says, it’s for me and obviously I didn’t sit there and type that specific one and send it, but it is something that we spent a lot of time reviewing and crafting and making sure that is the message that we want to deliver.
And it’s coming out of doing dozens of these calls. We decided what would go in that email. And then if somebody replies to it, it goes to my real inbox and I will absolutely reply to everyone that comes in. So it still is a very personal interaction. Just with a little help for us to actually do it consistently, because I won’t do it consistently with the number of meetings and calls and other things that we have going on.
Yeah, I won’t do that consistently and I know I won’t. So we set up automations in place to help make sure that it does happen and people get the hands on attention that they should get.
Amanda: I’m leaning towards asking Susan a little bit about how you wrote the emails and the personalization, because like Nathan said, a lot of thought went into writing those emails, structuring them in such a way. And it has this blend of our own voices and keeping them personal, but then also you learned a lot of tips and tricks in your 3 month course, 8 week course. You learned a lot in those courses. Do you have one or two things that people might not know that you want to share? Or do you want to plug the course? And do you have a referral link? Should we plug the course?
Susan: I wish I had a referral link. It’s actually a pretty well known course. I don’t know if I’ll name drop it, but it is a well known course. I think the biggest thing was looking at if someone’s brand new to our website, they’ve just landed there, they’re just starting to learn about Blink, what can we explain to them so we take them through the whole story in six emails?
So we go from they “don’t know anything”, “they understand”, “get to know who Nathan is”, “why he originally came up with Blink”, “get to meet Amanda”, and kind of “get to know you a little bit”. We did an alternating, I remember we were talking about the blend of how many emails should be from Nathan, how many should be from Amanda, and then each of you helping me to craft the emails that were from you, so they do reflect your voice, your tone, the way you each speak.
That was, that was a fun process of saying, who should say which pieces and then working with you to actually develop those and tell the story of Blink and how it relates ton people who are getting the emails, because we wanted to tie it back. We didn’t want it to be merely just this is about us and who we are.
We wanted to say, how do we explain how Blink can be helpful? How do we make these emails? I remember that was a big thing, big conversation that the three of us had was, we don’t want these to just be tone deaf promotional plugging. Please get on a call. Get on a call. We wanted it to be helpful and make people curious. And even if they don’t end up getting Blink. Or even if they never got on a demo, could they still have said, Oh, that company was interesting. I’m curious about them. And if they ever find the need for a Blink in the future, they would come back to us.
Amanda: it’s so new that we don’t know yet if people will get those emails and then come back at some point in the future. Like, I think that’s, what’s been fun about this process too, is that we just signed up for Pipedrive this year in 2024. And we just went through this whole process of crafting all these emails, you know, after we concurrently with when we signed up for Pipedrive.
And it’s just so new and there’s a lot of learning that we’ve had and probably a lot of learning that we will have in 2025 and 2026 and into the future. What are some things that you guys have been thinking about when it comes to what we’ve done so far and what’s still left to do when it comes to Pipedrive or automations or communications? Feel free to jump in.
Susan: Well, I think Nathan and I both love automating things, so I think we’re always looking for what is that next thing that makes sense to automate? And we have, we definitely have some ideas for this quarter for, especially for me doing ops. How can I connect what I’m doing operationally to what you and Nathan are doing for sales and marketing? That’s, been a big discussion.
Nathan: Drip sequence and the things we’ve worked on. Like, I would love for us to go back at some point. And because as we’ve had so many of these conversations with customers and potential customers, there are people in all different kinds of places. Like some of them are, you know, they’re the founder. Some of them are an operations person. Some of them are a CFO, there’s all these different roles, in an organization that people have, and they’re all at different places in their journey of like, they love data and they’re like data driven and they just want it as much of it as they can.
Or they’re much earlier that they really aren’t used to using data, but they’re really frustrated with, you know, how difficult it is to run a business. And so they’re very early on the conversations about the value of data and just becoming data informed.
And maybe they don’t even know what to measure yet, or, they’re not sure what’s to set as an explicit goal. They just want to get a baseline of where everything is in their company and have a pulse of what’s going on. So there’s kind of a messy map of those things, situations that I would like to, because typically we have a first call and then usually there’s way more details that we want to get into in a second call if somebody’s interested, and I would love to have that sequence continue past the first call and we can say, okay, coming out of the first call, Amanda and I spend a few minutes and say, well, if we had all the time in the world, we would probably write them 10 paragraphs about. What would be perfect for them? And again, trying to scale that process out so that instead of that’s not going to be practical, it won’t happen all of the time. So let’s say, can we tag them with, this is someone who’s very early in their data journey, or this is someone who’s already super data driven, and these are the kinds of problems they have, and then, they might get another email in between the second, the first call on the second call that is relevant and is what we would say if we had all the time in the world to communicate with just them one on one. So I would love to see that as an extension of this so that we can continue to, help people on their data journey, more consistently and more thoroughly, in between our calls.
Amanda: You both worked so hard on the Pipedrive and Zapier connections and data flow and information going back and forth. I definitely missed a question.
Susan: Well, I think the big thing I mentioned that it wasn’t as easy to set up as we thought. So a little bit of that surprise was that we’ve been working in the Pipedrive system before we ever wrote the emails and we had contacts, we were adding labels to them. And we added multiple labels for how we met people or what kind of role they had.
And we just kind of naturally thought that we could easily connect Zapier to that and continue to add labels through automation. And we built the email sequences and the workflows in Pipedrive. And then when it was time to connect the zap to it, we suddenly realized that there’s no automation where you can just add one label to the labels that were already there.
If you try to automate it through Pipedrive or through Zap, it overwrites all of your existing labels, so you lose all of that context on people who were already in the system. The minute they book the demo call, or the minute they add their email on your marketing site and your automation runs, all of those other labels are just gone. So that was, that was a surprise, that we did not think.
Nathan: Yeah. Sometimes.
Susan: We thought for sure that must be wrong. I remember I told Nathan what I had found, and he went and looked it up too, because we thought this can’t be right.
Nathan: Sometimes technical systems have a legacy code and weird little things that are not what you would expect. So that’s what we ran into here. And the temptation can be, well, let’s switch to a totally different platform, but every platform has some weird little issue you don’t encounter until you get there. Every new house or apartment that you move into that you don’t, don’t realize something until you’ve been there like a weekend, Oh yes, the restaurant next door and puts all their glass bottles into the dumpster at midnight when they close every night. And it’s incredibly loud. Which I discovered.
Amanda: That sounds personal.
Nathan: Yeah, totally theoretical example, but you discover those things and like, you could just pick up everything and move but there’s always something. So, you know, if we had not found a way around it, then, maybe we would have had to decide this is important enough. We need to switch, but instead it just took 10 hours when we thought it was going to take 10 minutes. And then we pushed through it and now we’re past it and that’s fine.
Susan: That’s what I love about our team is that everyone is so good at problem solving that we were able to just kind of come together and one of our developers built a solution for us. It all works now.
Amanda: And one that probably a lot of companies and founders can relate to is that feeling of, “Oh, this isn’t working. Let’s scrap it and find something else.” And that temptation is there. I mean, it’s not just in business, but in real life as well. It takes work to set up a CRM.
I think probably Susan knows this better than anyone else on the car. It takes a lot of work and time and dedication. And it’s hard to know if you’re spending that time in the right place and you can put in all of this work. You thought it’d be 10 minutes. It’s 10 hours. And then after 10 hours, you realize at that point, it still doesn’t work.
We got lucky because it is working for us. I guess, at what point did you know it would work? Or, what was your mental state when we were building all of this out? Like, where were we at emotionally?
Susan: Well, the project was planned for a quarter and we’d taken most of that quarter actually to write the emails. You’re not kidding when we said they were well crafted, we went back and forth. We did put so much thought into, “What do we want to communicate to the people who are receiving the emails?”
And we thought that the getting them into Pipedrive and automating was going to be a very tiny sliver of this project. So there was that moment of panic when I realized that we only have a couple of weeks left in the quarter and the job I thought was going to take 15 minutes. Like maybe 10 hours. But, I think the good thing is that Nathan is so resourceful and our team is as well.
So it was nice to know everyone’s going to try to figure something out between all of us. We were able to, but yeah, it was a little bit scary for a minute there. I was thinking this project’s not going to finish and now what are we going to do? We didn’t have a backup solution for it. So I was so glad we were able to plan one.
Amanda: Briefly, we’re obviously a software company and we have developers and when we need internal things done, we’re very lucky because we can pull a developer to help with things internally. Not always, if there’s always a give and take, right? If we don’t want to focus all internally, because then we need product progress as well. But, can you tell me about who was it on our team? And what did they do within Pipedrive? Like if somebody doesn’t have a developer and they’re listening to this, they’re like, wait, I need a developer for this. What piece of the puzzle was solved?
Susan: There was that one tiny piece that we did need a developer for, so, Nathan, how technical we want to get, but do you want to explain?
Nathan: In the articles, people could check that out and there’s a whole video, but there’s Zapier just has a command to add a label. And it doesn’t have what we needed, but Zapier does have a command to run a raw API command, which is like a sending code to Pipedrive. And, so we use that method, but then you have to be a developer if you’re going to use a raw API command.
Susan: I was able to set up the basics app, but this was definitely beyond my skill set. So thank you Zein. He set it up for us.
Amanda: Zein created a raw API command for me. You said that and I was like, I know the words, raw API and command all separately. Like I altogether, I can’t.
Nathan: Together they mean black magic.
Amanda: I can’t even fathom exactly what that means for someone who’s non-technical. Is this something that was enough research I could accomplish on my own or, you need a developer to do?
Susan: I would have.
Nathan: I have great faith in you, Amanda, but it would take you a few years.
Amanda: I like both of you.
Nathan: A lot of background knowledge to stack on top of each other to get to that level of programming.
Amanda: Okay. Is Zein available for contract work? If anyone watching this is like, we need to do this thing. We just need to get this one piece done.
Nathan: Yeah. People come to us usually with questions about their data or how to grow their business more effectively or running their operations more smoothly. And a lot of that comes down to data and reporting. That’s what the core product of Blink does. But, often we also encounter there’s like friction or challenges.
In the CRM, like the goal is to get this data out of the CRM and report on it and make the business more effective. But there’s this one missing piece, like, “Oh, we need a label on this one contact or on these contacts in order to report on them in the data.” And so we do end up offering custom services outside of our core product. We don’t intend for that to become the primary part of our business, but often it’s something that’s necessary and helps make the whole project happen. Which is something we try to do because the reason people are coming to us is because they don’t have time to deal with all of this mess and all of the data and all of the orchestration of everything. They don’t want to inherit a project that they need to deal with internally. So clearing out little roadblocks like that, that comes up or is part of our process.
Amanda: I love that answer because it is true. There are some of times people are attempting a raw API command that I, like you guys said, I couldn’t, but it’s not just me.
People probably just couldn’t do on their own. And that can feel like a huge hurdle, but there are companies out there and teams out there that are able to solve those types of problems. And it’s just a good reminder, like, don’t, throw out the baby with the bathwater, right? You can solve those things. It just might take a little bit of time or extra effort to figure out who can help you, but there’s always going to be someone that can help you.
Nathan: Yeah, and you may be a very technical person. Like, I mean, Susan, you’re very technical. You’ve done a lot of things with Zapier. You’ve set up all these complex zaps and multi step operations. And then, you know, it feels like, well, you just hit a brick wall. Like Zapier doesn’t offer this. It doesn’t work this way.
We’ve contacted their support. We’ve contacted Pipedrive support. This is the end of the road, right? And so some people may not even realize they need a raw API command. They don’t even know that that’s the solution. But, when we encounter people in these situations and they say, “There’s no way.” There’s usually some way we can help navigate and just say, “Okay, well, it’s just this one thing.” And, you know, we can do that in 10 hours. Like, let’s do this and solve the problem for you. So we can all move on.
Amanda: Well, I’ve got one or two final questions, but again, I have to turn it back to you both to say. What did I miss in this conversation? Like, what did I forget to ask?
Susan: I was thinking it’s a bit ironic, but you’re talking about the challenges we had with automation, but there are a lot of internal automation that you can connect to different stages. So, what we’re looking at right now, different deal stages and what can we connect so that we automatically keep conversations going as we’ve been talking to people and they’re progressing.
They’re continuing to have dialogue with us. I’m enjoying that looking forward to setting up more of that. So there are a lot of capabilities there that we have not tapped into.
Nathan: I think it does seem pretty flexible. Like there’s a lot of things you can customize to fit your business. You can have different activities, sales activities, but you can create activity types and then you can create custom fields and flag certain fields as important or required. And you can curate your deal stages.
And so there’s a lot of flexibility and it still doesn’t feel as clunky as one of those 15-year-old CRMs. It’s still fairly responsive. You can even drag and drop things between columns. And I feel like I can process through large amounts of stuff pretty quickly. And every time I complete an activity that pops up and tells me to make another activity, which is like a good reminder for me to do that pretty good like maturity of a product. But also still feels fairly quick and responsive to use and feels modern.
Amanda: Yeah. I’ll go too. I won’t just make you both answer it. My first thought was I like the color scheme of it, but that’s like that’s the dumbest answer.
Nathan: Hey, it does matter though. It doesn’t like you enjoying the tool that you use versus being something that like, I hate this thing. This thing is so slow. It is so clunky. Which do you feel about some CRMs? And it impacts when I do open up Pipedrive, then there’s a satisfaction of checking things off and having that list go and be able to drag the boxes around and feel like, “Oh, I’ve organized my work and like, I’m clear on what, where all the deals are, where everything stands, what I need to do. And when.”
It feels good using, using the tool feels good. And if it doesn’t like, then you’re not going to do all those things and work won’t get done. So user experience and design do matter a lot, so it’s not silly. Thanks.
Amanda: Actually I say this to my mom all the time. Here I’m talking about my mom on the podcast again, but she loves drinking tea And she had her eye on this teapot. I think it was like a Le Creuset set teapot, which are expensive. And she was like, but I don’t need to spend that for a teapot. And I think at some point we were just like, if it makes you happy every time you use it, that joy is worth so much more than saving $50 by getting a cheaper teapot, right? Like, that’s worth it. And what’s cool about Pipedrive is it’s affordable and nice to use.
Nathan: To our sponsor, Pipedrive, they should be our sponsor today. I mean, this is very complimentary.
Amanda: You know what, it’d be nice if Pipedrive was our sponsor, but I’m pretty sure they won’t even let us on their integrations list yet.
I think one of my favorite thing, and this is a strong opinion I have, but it’s about percentage. Like probability rates on deals and pipelines and stages and things. I hate them. I hate probability rates because they’re so they’re so theoretical unless you have thousands and thousands of use cases and you know, for sure if a deal is in this stage, X percent of them close. But without that data, the probabilities like, I don’t know. For me, so I like in Pipedrive, you can turn them off. You don’t have to set them. You can even toggle them on and off, I think. So you can see the amount in your pipeline with or without probabilities weighted in. I like that feature a lot as a salesperson, because I’m very black and white. I’m like, everything in the pipeline is zero for me. Right?
I mean, I have to report on what I have in the pipeline, but for me, I’m like, if it’s in the pipeline, it’s zero. I don’t consider something actual money until the credit card goes through.
So I’d like some of those features that I can look at it the way I want to, but then anyone else on the team can come in and say, “Let’s just be more reasonable about this, Amanda.” You can look at the weighted pipeline amounts.
Nathan: I like that. Nothing counts until it’s like 110% done, in the bank, past the refund period, done. So, yeah, I also think that way. I think I only find value in the deal probabilities on an individual deal basis, which Pipedrive also lets you do.
You can say, “This deal, I just got off this call and it feels like 50 50. I don’t know if they go either way.” I think that’s actually much more useful than the stage. Unless, like you said, you have 10,000 deals of history and you’re really that confident.
Amanda: All right. Well, thank you both so much. This was a fun conversation about Pipedrive. It was really cool to hear again some of the thought and thinking that you put into it. It’s always just fun chatting with you both too.
Susan: Thank you.
Nathan: All right. Thank you.
Amanda: Bye.
Nathan: Bye.
