BlinkMetrics as a powerful business fitness tool in driving KPIs, bringing forth data-driven insights and analogies especially for startups.
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Nathan: A lot of the founders and leaders that we’re working with might be coming to us because they’re frustrated, right? They’re frustrated that their company can’t grow or that they feel stuck. They feel like they work so hard all month and at the end of the month, the dollars in the bank account are the same or less than what they were before. And they’re trying to solve that.
And similarly, like with personal health, you might feel frustrated when you stand on the scale and you’re like, well, why am I not losing weight? And then, that it’s not some mystical, magical thing, right? It’s calories in and out. Like I need to work out more. But these cookies are so good and, there’s simple things like I know that it’s not, just some random occurrence, right? There are things that lead to this and there are numbers behind all of this that make it very simple math.
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Amanda: Hey, Nathan.
Nathan: Hey, how you doing Amanda?
Amanda: I’m doing okay. How are you? Good. Are you all caffeinated? Ready to record?
Nathan: Yeah. We’ve got a refill here.
Amanda: Oh man. Do you know what we’re talking about today?
Nathan: We talked to a lot of people about BlinkMetrics, of course, and people are in various different stages of their business and Blink is such a powerful tool and it can be used in a number of different ways. And so we’ve really, through a lot of conversations, found a way of communicating about it that helps people kind of understand what Blink is and how it can help, and sometimes just having a frame of reference, like when you’re learning about something new, having an analogy or having something that you do understand that you can kind of relate to is very helpful.
So I think we want to share a little bit about that, which we’ve kind of come to over time and, through a bunch of different conversations, to particularly somebody who is not fully data driven, right? Like they might be early in their journey. They don’t have lots of great systems in place. They don’t have a culture of data being used in every conversation in the business. And so that’s kind of a new thing for them and it can feel very overwhelming. We’re trying to share what we’ve learned in those conversations in a way that might be helpful.
Amanda: Thank you. That was actually a perfect way to dive into it. So when we’re talking about running a business and keeping an eye on all of your metrics and just having a very high level view and understanding of what’s happening in your business. When it comes to that founder persona, the person you were just describing someone who is just starting to get into the data of their company, someone who’s just starting to become curious about, I know what it feels like running my business, but I don’t necessarily know all of the quantitative measures that make it feel this way.
We, a few months ago had been just trying to figure out positioning for Blink and how we’re positioning it to that type of user, because there are a million use cases. But, what’s an easy way for someone who’s just starting to get into it, to really understand what it is, what we do, how they can sort of conceptualize BlinkMetrics as a product, which can get really, really complex really fast.
Nathan: Yeah.
Amanda: And, it dawned on us one day, we were saying BlinkMetrics is like a Fitbit. You know, you have your body, you just innately know how you feel, right? Like, that’s just part of being human. But when Fitbit and all of these other health trackers came out, it’s something that you wear on a finger, put on your wrist, or some people actually wear like heart monitors, which are more specific, and you can see numbers. It’s what’s happening in your body, but you can actually see a number that’s tied to it. Essentially that’s what BlinkMetrics is doing for a business.
It’s bringing to the surface, the most important KPIs. That help you understand what’s actually happening inside. So now business owners, they don’t just know what their business feels like, but they can see a number that’s tied to why it feels that way.
Nathan: I think one thing that’s helpful about the Fitbit analogy is that a lot of the founders and leaders that we’re working with might be coming to us because they’re frustrated, right? They’re frustrated that their company can’t grow or that they feel stuck. They feel like they work so hard all month and at the end of the month, the dollars in the bank account are the same or less than what they were before. And they’re trying to solve that.
And similarly, like with personal health, you might feel frustrated when you stand on the scale and you’re like, well, why am I not losing weight? And then, that it’s not some mystical, magical thing, right? It’s calories in and out. Like I need to work out more. But these cookies are so good and, there’s simple things like I know that it’s not, just some random occurrence, right? There are things that lead to this and there are numbers behind all of this that make it very simple math.
And one of the first steps is some event happens, some moment in my life where I decide, okay, enough is enough. I’m going to take my health more seriously. And one of the first things I would do as the nerdy kind of data person. It’s like, okay, well, obviously the first step is to get a Fitbit. But it is helpful because even if I haven’t even really begun all that journey, I’m not journaling and logging all the food that I’m eating and I’m not doing all of that yet, but I can put a Fitbit on and immediately start getting measurements and even if I don’t know what my goals should be yet, like it can start telling me where I’m at and are things getting a little bit better, a little bit worse, or where should I focus on? Am I sleeping enough? Am I exercising enough? Am I moving enough every hour of the day, right? Like these little things that it can passively be tracking and making recommendations and bringing visibility to some of us. Just if my awareness is there, like, “Oh, I haven’t moved in four hours.” right?
Like I just get a little buzz on my wrist, that little tiny micro shifts in behavior of just like not having to think about it and bringing it to your attention, it can start driving substantial change, especially over time and compounding. So I think it is really helpful in that sense, because people do understand like, I want to weigh less, or I want to be able to run further or run faster or whatever it is. You can’t really just achieve that outcome. It’s all these other little things that lead into it. And that Fitbit model is a concept they’re familiar with, like I can put this on and at least just figure out where I am and make small improvements. And so I think that’s a lot of times where people are coming in with Blink is like, some people come to us with very sophisticated requests and maybe they’re really deep in analytics in one part of their business.
And they’re maybe really focused on marketing analytics and their marketing funnel, and maybe they’ve spent a lot of time there. But they really want to spend time and going deeper in another area around customer support or sales or improving another department.
Sometimes people are more at this introductory phase where I’m just frustrated. I want to grow. I’m way too busy. I don’t know where to focus my attention. I don’t have time to like deal with data or make sense of it. And that’s where this Fitbit analogy comes in really easily because everybody can take a Fitbit out of the box, put it on their wrist, answer five questions about their age and weight and some basic things and it can start passively taking a bunch of information. And the Fitbit can be useful like an hour after you’ve put it on and then you can forget that you have a Fitbit and a week after you’ve had it on, there’s all sorts of useful stuff when you begin to see patterns. And so that model is how we’re trying to help the kind of overwhelmed, frustrated business owner or business leader, who’s just trying to grow their company.
That’s where we can come in and help. Like you can have a very small entry point into this world of data. Let me hook up all the tools I use and have BlinkMetrics start tracking and finding patterns and identifying areas of like, where you should focus on, where to go looking, right?
Amanda: Really helpful in establishing a baseline just as a starting point. Like you said, in an hour, you’re starting to build a baseline of your health history. And no matter where you go, where you want to go, it’s something that you can put on today right now and just get started. And I think that’s where a lot of people, when it comes to fitness and business decisions, it’s sort of that thought of, “I don’t even know where to start.” And it’s a very easy way to just start. It’s a first step. You don’t need to commit to running a marathon to buy a Fitbit and understand what your resting heart rate is. You don’t need to commit to being the most data driven company in the entire world to set up BlinkMetrics and start tracking your business metrics. It just is starting to give you an idea of where you are at and establishing that baseline, which I think is really healthy and really, really useful. You wear a Fitbit, right?
Nathan: Yes, I do.
Amanda: What was your motivation for buying your Fitbit? Do you remember?
Nathan: I don’t remember exactly when I started wearing it or exactly why, but I think it was that I was always really active and I played soccer a lot and then I had some injuries and got out of the habit and then I was working a lot and, becoming noticeably less healthy, by the month, by the year. I kind of know myself enough to know that if there’s some graphs and data to look at, and some numbers, I will optimize for numbers. So I felt like rather than just kind of having my head in the sand and not seeing what was going on, I would at least just put on, okay, well, let’s see. What there is, maybe I can make some small changes.
Cause like you said, I’m not the person who’s going to run a marathon probably ever. All growing up, like I would only really exercise in a competitive area. Like I will play soccer. I would play a racquetball. Like I would play a competitive thing and I would run myself into the ground, for a game, but if I go outside and if I were so inspired to run, I would run around the block and like halfway, okay, I’m tired. I’m going to stop. So, there’s nothing driving me to that, that next step. I don’t have that internal drive for running particularly. And so I think getting the Fitbit was a step towards, well, I know that I can motivate myself and at least, maybe change some small behaviors
Amanda: Since getting your Fitbit, are there any noticeable changes just because you had those numbers in front of you?
Nathan: Yeah, absolutely. One of the things early on was like it can notify you when you haven’t moved 250 steps in an hour or something. And when that little buzz would happen and I’d be like okay, well, I can just go walk around the kitchen for two minutes. And, if you do that 10 times a day, it’s way better than just sitting in a chair for eight hours straight. So even tiny things like that, I think are really helpful. And then over time, I’ll try to have a minimum number of steps or distance or calories that I burn. Just doing something like, even just going for a walk, like once or twice a day is enough to make a change.
So, yeah, I think it’s been helpful in those ways.
Amanda: My Fitbit was factory set to 10, 000 steps a day. That’s like become this ubiquitous goal that just everyone says that’s the goal. And that’s what you should reach for. Although doctors and science say it doesn’t need to be 10, 000. It’s less than that, but like, okay. I guess that’s what everyone’s saying now.
Nathan: It sounded like a good number. It sounds like a lot.
Amanda: Yeah. I actually changed my goal to be 8, 000 steps a day because I was getting consistently to six or seven and it felt like I don’t have another 30, 40 minutes to get to 10, 000. So I’ll just stop here. So I actually adjusted my goal to fit my personal lifestyle and it was still a reach goal for me every day, but I was motivated to hit the eight as opposed to completely unmotivated to attempt the 10. And by adjusting my goal down, it actually made me more active. And I think, the same thing can be applied to business, which is everyone’s business is different and there’s so much information on the internet about how you should run things or what you should be aiming to achieve in a day or a week and the world isn’t one size fits all, you know, business advice is not one size fits all.
So I’m curious to hear your thoughts about maybe something that you had learned, like this is the ideal for a business to achieve this number or achieve this goal that by actually understanding your own business metrics or your own data you said, that’s great if other people are doing that, but this is my goal. Now that I know my numbers, this is what I’m reaching for.
Nathan: I think adjusting the goals to be within reach or just barely out of reach is a really good tactic. And, I think doing that in business all the time, of course you want to have 10, 000 sales a minute, right? But like setting that when it’s wildly out of reach is kind of demotivating. And you just kind of like, well, I can’t do that. So you just don’t do anything. So, I think it’s human nature of like putting it just within reach is like, “Oh, well I can send two more messages today. I can stretch just a little bit.” So I think that’s really helpful.
I’m figuring out your baseline and where you’re at is key to that. And that’s one benefit that Blink will have over a Fitbit is that with the sources that we connect to, if you connect to your analytics or your invoicing system or something, we can actually pull historical data. If you’ve been using your invoicing or project management system for five years, we can pull five years of data. And so the moment that you activate and connect to those things, you can actually start looking at lots of historical data, which is really powerful. And then you can immediately say, “Okay, well, this is where I’ve been for the last couple of years.” There’s, you know, this percent change year over year, it’s reasonable to set this goal and put it just out of reach and, and adjust over time. On the Fitbit side of things, I kind of came to Fitbit and engaged in the traditional way of like, let’s count steps and activity and calories and all of that, but I actually have learned a lot from its sleep tracking that I didn’t necessarily come to it for, but, when it’s on your wrist 24/7, even when you’re sleeping, it actually collects a ton of data about your heart rate and your stages of sleep and also how much time you’re actually asleep versus being in bed, you know, it can tell when your heart rate drops down that you’re actually asleep. That is an interesting correlations to find. And also time of day, it can tell you exactly what time you went to sleep and what time you woke up and you can set targets for these things.
And having an infant in your house is like a huge exercise in realizing how much you need sleep and how painful it is when you aren’t, and you really have to come up with coping mechanisms and ways to really optimize. I’ve learned a lot through its sleep tracking. That has been very impactful to my life that I did not expect it to be when I started or set it up.
Amanda: I sort of view sleep tracking the same way that a business tracks customer support, which is it has to happen, right? It is almost like the maintenance, like once something is in motion, once you have customers using your product, they’re going to need things solved.
Things are going to need to be fixed. There sort of has to be this space where problems are being communicated and then resolutions are being figured out. And, you know, I think for humans what’s interesting about sleep tracking is people don’t buy a Fitbit or I should say, I don’t imagine people buy a Fitbit because they’re like, “I am only interested in my sleep data.” They’re looking at these flashy metrics, which is number of steps, how hard was my workout, what was my max heart rate during that run or that lifting session. And I think about those as sort of the metrics that for a business, that’s like revenue.
That’s how you know how much is in the pipeline. Those really flashy things that when you think about running a business, you’re thinking about money and growth and number of employees and these metrics that seem really awesome and flashy, but the same way that if you have an infant in the house and you’re not getting good quality sleep, everything else starts to suffer.
It falls like dominoes. That’s similar to how customer support and customer success, where if that isn’t functioning well, you’re starting to experience churn and no matter how hard you work to grow the pipeline and grow the revenue, if you don’t have this maintenance system set up properly, or if you’re failing to put enough time and energy into keeping it healthy, all the work that you do to grow your revenue, all of the hard work that you do in the gym to lift, you can’t reap the full benefits of that. What do you think of that analogy?
Nathan: Yeah. I think, I think a lot of people come to a Fitbit or to BlinkMetrics, like for a specific thing, right? Like they come to us because they really want to dial in their marketing funnel and their conversion rates and, you know, how they’re buying ads or something. They’re really focused on that area, but like, once you’re in there, there’s all these other things that it can passively monitor.
And then you don’t have to spend a great deal of time or any time, like even analyzing it, unless there’s a problem. It can check the page speed, like load time of your website every single day, like over and over and over. And it can start flagging if there’s an anomaly, because you might be really focused on the marketing side and you might be installing tracking scripts and doing all sorts of stuff to improve the design of your funnel and doing a new high design release of your homepage. But you may not be noticing that your page that used to load in one second is now loading in five seconds because you’ve been so focused on this one area, but Blink can be doing all of that in the background. It can be measuring your page speed, it can be measuring your SEO scores, your performance and accessibility scores, the number of people clicking your site from Google, which is a reflection of your SEO, like all of these things that you may not be focused on because your tunnel vision on this one thing that you’re focused on, it can be passively checking and monitoring all of the things that you really should be monitoring, but no business has the time or infinite resources to monitor everything exhaustively. Perfectly, just through sheer hours, it would take too long. So I think the same thing, people might come for one particular area that definitely needs help in this area and that’s what they come to us for, but then there’s so much that can be done behind the scenes consistently diligently every single day that is so powerful. Which, yeah, for me, I think probably the sleep tracking with Fitbit has been more change to my life than, even probably the general health side. But yeah, I would have never come specifically for that, but now I would not give it up because of that.
Amanda: We talked to someone recently, where they run their agency and part of how they describe their work to their clients is coming in doing the diagnostics, doing the blood work, understanding where that company’s health is, and then very similar to a doctor sort of saying, “Okay, here’s the medication we’re suggesting.” Here’s some of the changes that we’re recommending. And where Blink can be really helpful is we’re not trying to do all of that work of coming in and running all the lab tests and doing all the diagnosis. And, we’re not replacing the actual work that needs to be done, right?
The patient still needs to do their exercise and eat healthy but where Blink can be really helpful is tracking and setting a baseline. And then when all of these changes are in the process of being made, and then after they’re made, sort of following along that journey and helping people see, “Wow, look at where we were, look at where we came from.”
And as we made all of these micro adjustments to eating more fruits and vegetables every day, and maybe going for more walks every week. And as they’re making these micro adjustments they can follow along with the data but I just thought it was really interesting because business health does have so many, similarities to personal health, or at least in terms of how you can talk about them and look at them.
And I think, we’ve made so many advances as a society when it comes to personal health and what you need to do to live a healthy life. And there are options that are very affordable when it comes to personal health. For business health, we don’t have those same kinds of conversations, but it’s just as important.
Nathan: Yeah. I mean, speaking personally as a founder, they’re pretty related. If my business is unhealthy and I’m really stressed and I’m working lots of extra hours and I’m not taking time to do things for myself or my friends or my family. It impacts my personal health for sure. Like probably the time where I got that Fitbit was because my business was not in a good place and I was working incredibly long hours and I was basically not leaving my chair like almost ever. And so I think they’re really inextricably linked for particularly for founders and people, running businesses. If your business is healthy, there’s just logistical calm and time for other things, which is healthy. There’s time to actually go for a walk and do things.
And your stress level is going to be lower. Like if just part of the problem of running businesses, there’s like a million things that you need to know that are going well or not going well. And it’s impossible to track them all. So you always have this kind of just nagging anxiety about the unknown of like, “Oh, I’m not taking care of this or maybe this is on fire. I don’t even know if it’s on fire. I don’t even know what’s going on in my own business.” I’ve hired and delegated out this area so much so that I don’t even know what’s going on. I don’t even know if they’re doing their job. I don’t know if the customers are actually happy. I don’t know if customers are going to cancel it because they’re actually having a terrible experience. So I think even just having access to that data is, you know, even if the news is bad, at least I know, and there’s something I can do about it. This is an area I’m going to focus on tomorrow or next week. And so you can prevent problems and the business can be legitimately healthier. But there’s also that aspect of the unknown that starts to go away. So, you know, you can know when you can legitimately relax that things are okay and go spend your time elsewhere and sleep better and be healthier in general. Or when the things are not okay, you still don’t have to be all stressed and anxious about it. You just know, “Okay, this is an area I need to improve. I can reallocate some time, you know, make sure that we address this before it gets to be a huge problem that’s insurmountable.” So yeah, for me it’s super linked.
I’m sure any of my friends or family can also sense when that’s the case. So, I think there’s a lot of recognition publicly in the general sphere about work life balance. And I have a million thoughts about that, but it’s at least being discussed. So the fact that people recognize that, yes, of course your work can impact your life and your life and personal things can impact your work. There’s definitely a growing awareness and discussion around that. So they’re super linked.
Amanda: Do you think that creating more awareness about business health will actually lead to people’s personal health being better?
Nathan: Some people build amazing things like they have really happy customers. They build a great product, whether it’s a physical thing or whether it’s a digital thing. But there’s not really a focus on business health.
A lot of people accidentally become entrepreneurs or that they go into it for one reason, and then they inherit all of these other responsibilities and things that they don’t really have great interest in some of the logistics of operating a business. If you just bring some awareness to it and you have the ability for it not to be a logistical operation, just to have access to those numbers, you can drive a lot of change.
Just by focusing on business health, some of the stuff is really not that complicated. Maybe there’s some really advanced topics, but most businesses probably just by simply looking at their core set of 10 or 15 numbers reliably every week, every month, and then just making slight adjustments of where they spend their time. That’s going to get you like 80 percent of the gain. Many people are just focused on building the product or doing one piece of the business and a little bit of awareness would be really helpful.
Amanda: Awareness is crucial for this conversation because people have known for millennia, centuries, whatever, that being physically active leads to a longer, healthier, happier life. That isn’t new science, right? Well, actually, I don’t know. I don’t know enough about like history and human health and biology, but I’m pretty sure people have known that.
Part of the reason that Fitbit has, you know, become so popular is because it has brought awareness to micro changes in diet, exercise, sleep. It gives you an actual number that kind of grounds that. And it’s proof of the work that you’ve done.
Whereas before, you know, you might go to your annual checkup. And if you were active the year before your resting heart rate is down, if you were less active, your resting heart rate goes up. But It’s hard to work out every single day. It’s hard to have a regular fitness routine.
So I think part of Fitbit’s popularity has been people can see those changes in real time and they can see what adjustments they’re making, what effect it has on their data in real time. And they don’t have to wait for those big annual doctor’s visits to know if everything they did for 365 days meant something.
And it’s very similar to business where having something like BlinkMetrics constantly running in the background and monitoring your KPIs. It gives you that real time insight. You don’t have to wait for your quarterly business reviews, you don’t have to wait for kind of these, these big moments to understand and look back and say, “Oh, okay. I guess this didn’t work. Let’s try something new and see what happens next year.” Like you can make those adjustments in real time, but the first step is just awareness. You need a method that allows you to be constantly continually aware. And it has to be automated. It’s just too much admin work to do that manually.
Nathan: The annual physical is a good example. Cause you know, I think back in the day they would just say, well, “How many days a week do you work out?” And you might say, “Oh, like three.” Right? And that’s what they’re going for, but your memory and maybe slightly aspirational or exaggerated hope of what you do and the Fitbit can sit there and say well, “No, you didn’t exercise three times last week because Oh, yeah, it was a holiday. Oh, it’s that friend’s birthday.” So actually last week you did nothing and being able to see that just seeing that is like, “Okay.” And that’s fine. Life happens, right? And then I can say next week, like, “Okay, well this week I’m definitely going to at least not miss any. I’m going to definitely do all three because last week I did zero.” And so just having that visibility. It’s really powerful. We can’t kid ourselves about what we’re doing. And again, it would be a ton of work. Yes. You could have a notebook and you could write every hour of every day and you could put a little check mark about whether you exercised or not. But a Fitbit makes that effortless so it’s just happening all the time.
Amanda: Since implementing BlinkMetrics for your own business, because we’ve been running on it for a lot longer than it’s been on the market for other people. What are one or two micro changes that you’ve made to your business once you became aware of some metrics that had previously been difficult to track? I can think of one example off the top of my head.
Nathan: Okay, what’s your example?
Amanda: Let me ask you a question and then answer it. It was the developer weekly commitments. You were getting to a point where a really small percentage of what was being committed to each week was being completed. And can you tell me what happened once you started tracking that?
Nathan: Yeah . So, we have a process every Monday where everybody on the development team commits to what they’re going to get done by Friday. We were predictably not getting as much done as people were expecting on Monday. And as leaders of the dev team, we were really trying to actually get people to reduce their commitment and say, like, “I really rather we commit to less things, but actually get them done so we can make sure that we’re picking the right things to work on rather than kind of randomly doing half of what’s in the list, which is kind of unpredictable for the business.”
And, you know, I think everybody came into that meeting with the best of intentions and no one is trying to pull anything either way right? But we would all kind of overestimate what we could get done, which is just normal because we always underestimate what kind of roadblocks we’re going to run into. And, we kind of knew in kind of a fuzzy conceptual way, like, yes, we’re over committing. And last week as a team, we got half as many done as we thought we were going to. But at an individual level and at a day level, like, and at an hour level of tasks you’re working on, those dots weren’t really connecting.
It still kind of felt even planning a week at a time, which is not that large. Some companies plan like a quarter at a time, right? So your margin for error is, we were here and if you’re planning a month or a quarter at a time, it’s completely unknowable. And the feedback to you doing something, to then seeing the result is so far removed that you can’t really make an adjustment. Even on a week scale, we were saying, “Oh yeah, I’ll get all this done this week.” But you can’t do a pile of 15 tasks magically, right? You do them one at a time and we estimate them and you can work on Monday and then we can check and see exactly where we are for Monday. And I know there’s four days left. And so I should have done 20 percent of the work by now. And, “Oh, I didn’t.” And then Tuesday can pass and, “Oh, I didn’t catch up. I’m actually further behind.”
And so when you have that feedback loop, that’s so much tighter and smaller, like you can actually see the connection between what I’m choosing to do for the next three hours. And then I can see that feedback and then people did start adjusting and we got that percentage way up. And you would think it was just people committing to less and then the percentage going up, which that alone would have actually been a win, at least we were picking the right tasks, but in fact, we found that kind of what you were saying about putting a target within reach is like people would actually get to like 80 percent of their list and then all of a sudden we had people getting 90 or a hundred percent done because, “Oh, well, it’s only like, it’s one more task than I could be at a hundred percent.” So I think we actually increased the volume of things and the percentage. Our main focus was the percentage. And I think people are also a lot less stressed out, they didn’t feel like they ended every week like, “Oh, I did 40 percent of what I committed to and I’ve failed.” So I think people feel better about their week. It’s better for the business. They can, relax on the weekend and not feel any kind of guilt that they didn’t finish something or try to sneak in on Saturday and do an extra task to get caught up. We want people to have lives as well. And so I think it was one of those things that’s better all around once we had that kind of effortless tracking.
Amanda: I love that. That’s just great. Any final thoughts about BlinkMetrics as a health tracker for your business?
Nathan: No, I think, I think we’ve covered it, but I’m ready to see our sponsor.
Amanda: Okay. Merrick Power Bites. They’re soft, chewy dog treats. This is the real chicken recipe flavor.
Nathan: Okay.
Amanda: I have a dog. I think people maybe they know that. He absolutely loves these. He goes wild for them. He does that for any kind of food. I choose Merrick because they’re grain free and gluten free. They got me with their packaging. It’s like a little rustic, but also, you know, it’s like nicely packaged. They got my business.
Nathan: Well, thank you. Thank you to, what were they called?
Amanda: Merrick
Nathan: Thank you to Merrick.
Amanda: Do you have a meeting right now?
Nathan: I do.
Amanda: All right. Well, thanks, Nathan.
Nathan: Thank you.
Amanda: And thanks to our sponsor.
Nathan: Yeah, thanks for our sponsor Merrick for supporting Chaos to Clarity.
